Talk:Indigenous peoples

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Frequently asked questions

Q: Why does this article only include "minority" ethnic groups?

A: Because we apply the definition of "indigenous peoples" used by international legislation by the UN, UNESCO, the ILO and the WTO, which applies to those ethnic groups that were indigenous to a territory prior to being incorporated into a national state, and who are politically and culturally separate from the majority ethnic identity of the state of which they are a part.

Q: Why does this article not include European ethno-national groups such as the Irish, French, Georgians, etc.? They are also indigenous to their countries.

A: Yes, they are indigenous to their countries and territories, but they are not indigenous peoples under the definition used by international legislation described above. The reason this definition is useful is that under a broader definition of "indigenous" simply as "native to a territory", the definition would include all peoples and ethnic groups, because all groups are indigenous to somewhere. The article would then have the same scope as an article on the ethnic groups of the world and it would be redundant as a separate article. Furthermore, literature on indigenous peoples always applies a definition similar to that used in international legislation, precisely because otherwise it would simply be an article about human political, cultural and migrational history; that is another topic. This is the RfC in which the inclusion criteria were decided by broad consensus.

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Greeks aren’t native to Anatolia, the Anatolians are.

How do you even get this wrong? Both Greeks and Turks are colonizers of Anatolia. Youprayteas ^talk^/^contribs 09:53, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It apears the word indigenous, which is something they are sticking to specifically, doesn't mean native anymore. Especially in the European, and as you say, Asia minor context.

It now more or less refers to some historically downtrodden minority group with some measure of a historical claim to the land which deserves some special rights to ameliorate some historical or current wrong. Gelbom (talk) 12:58, 31 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Short decription

Hello all

I just reverted an edit which changed the short description to "First inhabitants of an area and their descendants". This isn't correct as the article makes clear.

@Absolutiva Please discuss on Talk and try to reach consensus on a new short description. Also please read the previous discussion on this issue in the Talk archive. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 23:12, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This short description has been exceeded more then 40-60 characters, so I propose as "Peoples who identify as Indigenous". Absolutiva (talk) 23:18, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would not oppose this but it isn't strictly accurate. Given that all official definitions are complex and involve multiple critera, another possibility is simply not to have a short description. I think another editor proposed this in the last discussion which is in the archives.

It's in Archive four, the discussion headed "Short Description". Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 00:07, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, the description is long, but Indigenous is a very complex identity that isn't easily described by "first inhabitants" or mystifying it only with "people with a special connection to the land". While both of these elements have truth, being reductionist simply doesn't help in this case. PersusjCP (talk) 03:08, 7 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Very offensive article

All European peoples are indigenous to Europe. Just as all the African peoples are indigenous to Africa. French are indigenous to France, Italians to Italy, and Flemish to Flanders. 74.96.141.73 (talk) 18:59, 23 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not a real issue. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not censored. Semantism2 (talk) 19:22, 25 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't understand why you suggest it's offensive. I totally get your point about the core meaning of Indigenous, which in general use does not imply an oppressed minority or similar things, simply that the people are where they come from. So the issue here is not one of being offensive, but one of accuracy. If we're to add a sense that the people have to have an "experience of subjugation and discrimination" we'll dramatically re-write the meaning of the word. Let's hope Wikipedia's normal protocols will prevent such nonsense from being propagated. Dominic Cronin (talk) 14:42, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article reflects definitions of Indigenous peoples as used by international organisations and scholars, which don't cover French people in France, etc. It's worth reading Indigenous peoples#Definitions to understand how the term is used. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:19, 28 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Population estimates

@Carwil. Thanks for expanding on the population estimates. However, you have put undue weight on one estimate by Hirsch. Also I can't see how it can be a critique of a UN estimate which was published later. Please have a look at your wording an clarify the meaning of "some of the statements.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 01:26, 19 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]